Posts by Joe Grundy

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

Mephis:

I was disappointed with Rosenberg's comments. He seemed to have missed the point, and got it wrong re paper records.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

So there you have it.. When you join the organisation (JWs) you are agreeing to the above data collection, retention and sharing.

How many 'bible studies' are made aware of this? I could make a guess.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

Here is the Data Protection registration for WT UK:

Data Protection Register - Entry Details

Registration Number: Z5281400

Date Registered: 16 February 2001 Registration Expires: 15 February 2017

Data Controller: INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION

Address:

IBSA HOUSE
THE RIDGEWAY
LONDON
NW7 1RN

This register entry describes, in very general terms, the personal data being processed by:

INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION

Nature of work - Charity (National)

Description of processing

The following is a broad description of the way this organisation/data controller processes personal information. To understand how your own personal information is processed you may need to refer to any personal communications you have received, check any privacy notices the organisation has provided or contact the organisation to ask about your personal circumstances.

Reasons/purposes for processing information

We process personal information to enable us to provide a voluntary service for the benefit of the national public as specified in our constitution; administer membership records; to fundraise and promote the interests of the charity; manage our employees and volunteers; maintain our own accounts and records. Our processing also includes the use of CCTV systems for the prevention of crime.

Type/classes of information processed

We process information relevant to the above reasons/purposes. This may include:

personal details
family details
lifestyle and social circumstances
membership details
goods and services
financial details
education and employment details
visual images, personal appearance and behaviour

We also process sensitive classes of information that may include:

physical or mental health details
racial or ethnic origin
religious or other beliefs of a similar nature
offences and alleged offences
criminal proceedings, outcomes and sentences
trade union membership

Who the information is processed about

We process personal information about:

members
staff, volunteers
supporters
complainants, enquirers
advisers
representatives of other organisations
individuals captured by CCTV images

Who the information may be shared with

We sometimes need to share the personal information we process with the individual themself and also with other organisations. Where this is necessary we are required to comply with all aspects of the Data Protection Act (DPA). What follows is a description of the types of organisations we may need to share some of the personal information we process with for one or more reasons.

Where necessary or required we share information with:

members
family, associates or representatives of the person whose personal data we are processing
employees
current, past and prospective employers
healthcare, social and welfare organisations
providers of goods and services
educator and examining bodies
financial organisations
employment and recruitment agencies
survey and research organisations
business associates and professional advisers
police forces
local and central government
other companies in the same group as the data controller
other voluntary and charitable organisations

Transfers

It may sometimes be necessary to transfer personal information overseas. When this is needed information may be transferred to countries or territories around the world. Any transfers made will be in full compliance with all aspects of the data protection act.

© Copyright

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

Landy:

Yes, charities and not-for-profits are included under the Data Protection Act in England & Wales.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

In relation to the destruction of material ...

In relation to 'special procedure material' under PACE 1984, i.e. material (documents etc.) held by a party (e.g. a bank, accountant, whatever) under a duty of confidence, this was only obtainable by an investigator (constable etc) under a Production Order from a Circuit Judge. When making an application for a PO, notice was given to the holder of the material so that they could appear before the judge to argue the PO if they wished. The notice always pointed out to the holder of the material that - having been put on notice about the material - the material was therefore protected from destruction etc. under the law.

My point is this. Lawyers know about this sort of stuff. They will be very well aware of the general notice given by HHJ Goddard even if a specific notice was not served on WTBTS/IBSA UK (and I don't yet know whether a notice was served or not, perhaps WT was too small to be included). But an admitted Solicitor or a Barrister will have no excuse whatsoever.

I suspect that right now there are frenzied communications going back and forth between UK and US (just as I;m sure there were similar communications between Australia and US during the ARC hearings).

We all saw (and the world has seen) what a complete horlicks the WT made of the ARC hearings. The current climate in the UK regarding historic abuse does not bode well for the WT if it continues to obfuscate. I, for one, wouldn't want to be an elder hung out to dry for my actions - or even for shredding my notes.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

Cofty:

Thanks for your kind comment. I am not a qualified lawyer, but in my former career was quite specialised and was able to guide prosecution lawyers, IYSIM. Certainly in conference with barristers, incl. QCs, the discussion was between equals. However, I have been retired for ten years and so my knowledge is not current so I am always open to correction.

I was intrigued by the shambles of evidence that the WT put forward at the ARC hearings. WT knew what they were going to be asked and I would have expected a multi-million dollar corporation to have prepared better. Toole, as the lead lawyer in Australia, was -to be honest - a joke. I have arrested, interviewed and had convicted far sharper lawyers than him in small towns in Wales - and he was national legal adviser!

I don't know whether WT took this on board, but it should have done. The shenanigans surrounding Jackson's appearance before ARC was a big deal. Watch the WT lawyer (the real one, not Toole) squirm and apologise to HHJ explaining that he had been misled by the WY head honchos. This does not happen very often and it really is a big deal.

I wonder whether WT HQ and its lawyers, sitting in the US, have really grasped what they're dealing with. My limited knowledge of US federal law suggests that there is a sort of blanket immunity for religions under the constitution, and certainly the weight of religious vote is important. That's not the case in the UK (or in Australia) and religious organisations generally have no ;get of jail free' card.

More to follow ...

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

Phizzy:

Thanks for your comment. I'm sure that my views/opinions/comments are of no more consequence than those of anyone else, but if they come back to me I am happy to back them up with references and examples.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

"remember they are classed as non-profit whch can mean exemption (in tne uk)."

I hadn't considered that and will check. I'm not sure it's correct - think of some of the huge charities in UK, but it's a good point.

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

Landy:

There have been huge misunderstandings about DPA (in E&W) since its inception and I spent a lot of time in my former career dealing with them.

The principle is that any organisation which holds searchable identifiable personal data (electronically or in paper indexed systems) about individuals must register with OIC and say why it holds that data and the use to which it will be put. It must hold the data in confidence, ensure that it is correct, and only retain it for the specified purposes and for as long as is required for those purposes, and not disclose it other than for the purposes specified in its registration.

Most (if not all) data holders have a clause which includes disclosure for the purpose of crime prevention and detection, or similar, which applicants sign up to, for example, when they apply for a credit card. It's not actually necessary, because the DPA contains specific provisions on this. Data-holders cannot refuse to provide information required for crime detection and prevention purposes using DPA as a reason.

And, don't forget, the right to confidentiality always belongs to the subject of that data, not the organisation holding it.

Just a thought, I need to wander off and check the OIC site to see whether JW congos are registered ...

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

Joe Grundy

This is the text of an e-mail I have sent to the Inquiry today:

"I never was a Jehovah's Witness, but for various reasons have researched them for several years. I am a retired senior police officer with experience of dealing with child and sexual abuse.

I have followed the progress of the UK Charity Commission investigation and the appeals by WTBTS with interest, as I'm sure you have.

I also followed the proceedings of the Australian Royal Commission, and I'm sure that you are aware of these and the findings so far. What I think is relevant to your inquiry is that all procedures and policies, down to a micro-management level, are directed by the 'Governing Body' in world HQ, New York. National, regional and local bodies have no discretion whatsoever to change those policies. This was made (excruciatingly) clear in sworn testimony before the ARC from JW personnel at all levels from local elders, Australian country leaders, Australian national HQ legal adviser, to a member of the world-wide 'Governing Body' based in New York.

The fact that all procedures and policies are dictated by the world HQ is very relevant to a UK inquiry. If you have the testimony and findings of ARC, it will not have escaped your notice that any suggestions/recommendations as to improvements in procedures would have to be referred to world-wide HQ and the 'Governing Body' before they could be agreed to. This does not bode well. JWs have a policy which they describe as 'Theocratic Warfare' - well documented in their own publications. In essence, this says that they can, and should, not tell the truth to those who they perceive as being in opposition to them. This policy was clearly being used in some sworn evidence given before the ARC.

Regards"